Curse

talisk3 · Feb 22, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

I was just messing around reading some of the guides on here and I saw that the writer of the assassin and the paragon guides both think that their primary attribute is the only one that can rival Soul Reaping.

Edit: Thanks Shayne Hawke for pointing that out. This is for PvE!

So I was thinking, what is the most useful primary attribute. I know each one is designed to match the profession.

Lets compare.

Expertise-My main is a ranger and I find that this is great absolutely amazing. Having skills costing 2 energy and running a zealous bow you can spam attacks to no end

Soul Reaping-Observing my necro heroes I see that this is amazing. The boost of energy allows my Livia to spam a few more heals and Olias to animate some minions.

Leadership-In my brief time of playing paragon I have discovered that being able to spam partywide shouts with little fear of energy is fantastic

Energy Storage-I don't play very much ele but I think that it's not amazing. Sure +20 energy will help but if you're spamming attacks and don't have good energy management you're going to run out anyway.

Fast Casting-Playing against mesmers I see how this attribute is not terrible but not great. It makes it much harder to interrupt but with Daze it counters the attribute.

Divine Favor-More healing will keep your party alive longer. I think it's good but I'd love some opinions.

Critical Strikes-Powerful, with Critical Eye you're hitting many critical hits. Energy galor!

Mysticism-It doesn't look great, but with my inexperience in dervishes I don't really know. But getting about 6 health and 4 energy when en enchantment ends doesn't seem amazing. The energy will help but 6 health isn't too good.

Strength-The +AP suites warriors. But not the most useful primary attribute.

Spawning Power-Never played ritualist, no idea, tell me ^^

So the big question is: What is the most useful Primary Attribute

Please don't troll/flame and say that my opinion is all wrong. Some probably are in your eyes. And some of you smart people will be able to convince me.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 22, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

If we're talking from a PvE standpoint, Soul Reaping > everything else, simply because there's so much to kill in PvE.

lewis91 · Feb 22, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Expertise = joint first
Soul reaping = joint first
Critical Strikes = second
Paragon = fourth

Hmm. Id like paragons not to have a cap on the energy they regain from a shout, because +5 energy kinda sucks when you only want to spam 3 or 4 chants/shouts, and actually attack. I know i know, people will now say if you want to attack try warrior, well no, i just wanted to try a spear for a while. Shortly after reaching level 20, deleted.

Monks could do with a boost IMO, becausing with about 12 divine favour, when you cast WoH on someone, they get an extra 40ish health, although that is nice, id prefere a better energy management really.

Elementists, at first glance, and having 80ish energy is kickass, but walk into an enchantment strip and your ****ed, because most of the skills cost 10 or more energy, so upon casting 5-8 skills with no enchantment, you've got no energy. I know [skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill] is meant to help prevent that, and it does...For two skills. But nevertheless i love my ele. The only char ive actually kept for almost two years.

Warrior i have 13 strength, and i have no problem with it, its not exactly super great having x AP but it does the job, no complaints.

Ritualist, i played one shortly, im not into the total spirit spam for PVE, it has no place in PVE, and i didnt want to play healer, nor did i want to play MM. So i deleted that.

Dervish energy managment can be great, and so can the healing, i have no complaints with this primary.

Edit-----

Oh yeah, forgot about mesmer, thats useless IMO. With 12 fast casting a spell that usually takes 2 seconds to cast, is reduced to something like 1.2 seconds...whoopy. id rather;
12 = 2seconds -> 0.8
12 = 3seconds -> 1.4
12 = 5seconds -> 2.3

Not overpowered, because anyone using 12 fast casting probably only is using one other attribute, most likely domination, and then they only have skills that recharge once in a lifetime.

kostolomac · Feb 22, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

God tier: Soul Reaping;
Good tier: expertise and leadership;
OK tier: strength, critical strikes, mysticism ,divine favor ,energy storage;
At least it has a purpose tier: fast casting;
Spawning power tier: Spawning power;

Rits seriously need a more useful primary.

ac1inferno · Feb 22, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

They all seem pretty even to me, but I would like it if they change Soul Reaping to not have 5 second interval between activations and give half for Minion deaths while keeping the not activated by Spirits deaths.

Improvavel · Feb 22, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

God tier: Soul Reaping;
Good tier: expertise and leadership;
OK tier: strength, critical strikes, mysticism ,divine favor ,energy storage;
At least it has a purpose tier: fast casting;
Spawning power tier: Spawning power;

Rits seriously need a more useful primary.

Agree for PvE. In PvP Fast casting exchange places with soul reaping.

ES is a bit debatable where it is...

ZodiacFear · Feb 22, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Fast Casting - RoJ mesmers are used over monks for a reason.

silavor · Feb 22, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Using mysticism for the health benefits is lolwut at best, it's purely for the energy. Good dervish builds (and more importantly the teams they fight in) should have enchantments being cycled on and off, to fuel the spamming of scythe attacks. Fast Casting is possibly the best in PvP, and soul reaping is quite obviously the best in PvE.

@ac1inferno: The whole reason why soul reaping has those restrictions now is so regular folk at least get the chance to think necromancers aren't gods.

Captain Bulldozer · Feb 22, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I don't think this can really be considered without also thinking about the skills each of these atts offers. Rankings are in terms of 3 tiers, 1st being best.

Soul Reaping: Certainly godly in PvE, less useful in PvP. The fact that this line ALSO has signet of lost souls makes it truly great, as those spent att points give you a ton of extra energy (in PvE) as well as access to an energy+health gain costing no energy.

Ranking/Suggestions: Top tier attribute for PvE, 2nd tier for PvP. No big suggestions, but it would have been nice to have more skills in this line.

Expertise: Truly a powerful att. The energy reduction of ranger skills, as well as touches, spirits, etc. makes Rangers a force to be reckoned with. In expertise there are skills to interrupt, block, inflict blindness, further reduce energy of bow attacks, cheap spammable dmg skills, and IAS, run skills. Just about everything you could want, all tied to an attribute you'd already wanna put points in anyway.

Ranking/Suggestions: Top tier attribute for both PvE and PvP.

Critical Strikes: Inherent extra dmg, energy gain and a host of reasonably valuable skills. Also you the ability to block an awful lot (with critical defenses) as well as the ability to inflict a lot of conditions, although most of them are more useful in PvP (i.e. cripple, etc.) Also offers IAS, but only through an elite. Worth noting is that this primary is only really useful when attacking, and sins have low armor for a front liner.

Ranking/Suggestions: 2nd tier for both PvE and PvP. Would be top tier if the line offered some slightly more useful skills... as currently most of the skills only enhance the attribute itself.

Divine Favor: More healing is useful, but often results in over-healing. Very important for PvE farming, offers some useful skills in general but most of them are elites. Offers some limited form of energy gain, but conditional on the use of signets or maintaining enchantments.

Ranking/Suggestions: 2nd Tier for PvP and PvE. We have seen that divine favor isn't needed for a good healer if energy is readily available. This line offers little to no energy management, but does have some nice elites to complement other monk attributes or for farming.

Energy Storage: Offers a boat load of extra energy. That in itself isn't that big a deal as many ele skills are fairly expensive. However, this has a great deal of utility as well with skills like Glyph of Lesser Energy and Ether Renewal. So has good energy management and some decent self healing. Very little damage to speak of, but provides for good survivability.

Ranking/Suggestions: 2nd tier for PvE and PvP. The energy management of Energy storage is awesome, but it would have been nice if it offered ways to remove exhaustion or ways to decrease cast time of spells.

Leadership: Offers nice energy gain when casting shouts, as long as you do so nearby as many ppl as possible. Also offers an VERY nice IAS which can be maintained almost indefinitely. The ability to inflict burning coupled with the ability to reduce damage taken from burning foes is very nice as well. Also offers a good repeatable res, forms of very good party support and the ability to become an imbagon in PvE. This attribute makes paragons one of the most godly professions in the game.

Ranking/Suggestions: Top tier for PvE, top or 2nd for PvP. The party support of a paragon is immensely helpful, but having unlimited energy/adrenaline makes you able to drastically increase party dmg and survivability.

Mysticism: Offers decent energy gain, with some health gain thrown in. Enables the use of avatars which can be fun. Skills offer a decent dose of self healing, and energy gain. Also contains the derv's best IAS, and the ability to inflict/extend a few conditions.

Ranking/Suggestions: 2nd tier for PvE and PvP. Would have been nice if this line contained some of the utility of expertise, such as blocking.

Strength: Offers extra armor penetration, which can be quite useful, but often isn't. Line offers some impressive stuff, such as good IAS skills, good run skills, Bulls Strike (for PvP) one of the better self heals for a warrior, extra armor, temporary health gain and some reasonably good attack skills.

Ranking/Suggestions: Top/2nd tier for PvP, 2nd tier for PvE. Warriors are damage dealing machines, and strength is one of the best complimented attributes for that purposes. Still, the lack of things like hex/condition removal limits your options and can force you to spec into other attributes.

Spawning Power: Offers the ability to make meatier spirits/minions and extend weapon skills. Line offers the ability to remove conditions, cause dmg on creation of spirits/minions, reasonably good energy management and a very nice elite (Consume soul). Overall pretty underpowered, but only because spirits and weapon spells are outpaced by other forms of damage.

Ranking/Suggestions: 3rd tier for PvE and 2nd/3rd tier for PvP. The use of spirits generally declines as the game progresses. Only the party support spirits retain some usefulness, but those generally have low duration even with lots of spawning power. While the line does offer some nice incentives for a minion bomber, N/Rts can generally perform this function better. Unless spirits and weapon spells become much more powerful, this attribute will be underused (for very good reasons).

Fast Casting: Offers the ability to decrease spell and signet activation. Does not affect glyphs, binding rituals, etc. Skill line is a little light, but offers the ability to steal and use another foe's elite, and to recharge spells faster.

Ranking/Suggestions: 3rd tier for PvE, 1st/2nd tier for PvP. Many mesmer skills seem to have been desiged to have long cast times, probably because fast casting was thought to solve that problem. While the line does offer nice abilities, the lack of energy management forces one to spec into something like inspiration, leaving fewer points for more important attributes. In PvP fast casting can make a big difference, as interrupts/hexes/debuffs are more important than in PvE.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Feb 23, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

God tier: Soul Reaping;
Good tier: expertise and leadership;
OK tier: strength, critical strikes, mysticism ,divine favor ,energy storage;
At least it has a purpose tier: fast casting;
Spawning power tier: Spawning power;

Rits seriously need a more useful primary.

i agree...except Spawning Power tier should be useless tier lol.
Energy storage should be in Good tier though.

This is for pve though. PvP has a different story.
Divine Favor is a good primary, lewis91 is obviously not a monk lol

Cebe · Feb 23, 2009, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis91

Elementists, at first glance, and having 80ish energy is kickass, but walk into an enchantment strip and your ****ed, because most of the skills cost 10 or more energy, so upon casting 5-8 skills with no enchantment, you've got no energy. I know [skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill] is meant to help prevent that, and it does...For two skills. But nevertheless i love my ele. The only char ive actually kept for almost two years.

On Energy Storage, it's not just the fact it increases your max energy. I know that if attunements get stripped you can suffer, but that's why you alter your playstyle when in enchantment-stripping areas. Energy Storage also affects skills like [[Shock Arrow], [[Glowstone], [[Glowing Gaze], and [[Glowing Ice]. These skills, when used in conjunction with GoLE, can help to minimise the energy loss if an enchantment is stripped, and these skills gain greater benefits from Energy Storage.

I merely wanted to clear up that point, I'm not saying "Energy Storage is the best". Most primaries are adequate for their professions, the catch with Soul Reaping is that it makes energy management almost redundant for Necromancers, so it makes for PvE on Automatic. With enough Adrenaline Gain, "GftE!" and "SY!" can make Leadership a very tasty attribute also.

MasterSasori · Feb 24, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

@Captain Bulldozer:

Leadership should be top tier for both PvE and PvP.

Fast Casting should be top tier for PvP.

As far as I'm concerned, Rits do not have a Primary attribute.

Lusciious · Feb 24, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

im not getting something here .. what so good about leadership ? oO

Wish Swiftdeath · Feb 24, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

im not getting something here .. what so good about leadership ? oO

Exactly!

What's so good about infinite energy?

Anwyn · Feb 24, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

im not getting something here .. what so good about leadership ? oO

errr, 4-6 energy for free when using an adrenalin shout? hmmm... I have almost perma 30e when running my paragon in pve... Pvp, it does suffer, but it's still awesome..

faraaz · Feb 24, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

IMO the order goes:

Soul Reaping
Critical Strikes

Everything Else...

talisk3 · Feb 24, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

IMO the order goes:

Soul Reaping
Critical Strikes/Expertise

Everything Else...

Fixed
12 chars

Snow Bunny · Feb 24, 2009, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Soul Reaping - Fastest energy gain
Leadership - 2nd fastest
Expertise - Excellent energy management
Critical Strikes - ^
Divine Favor - Why primary monks are better than mesmer monks
Fast Casting - Why mesmers are better elementalists.
Energy Storage - Lot of energy, fairly legit.
Mysticism - Truly only useful for dervishes
Strength - meh
Spawning Power - very meh

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 08, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Best: Soul Reaping
Very good: Leadership, Critical Strikes
Good: Divine Favor, Expertise
Ok: Strength, Mysticism, Energy Storage
Practically Useless: Fast Casting
Sucks So Hard, It Came First Place In The All-County Cocksucking Championship: Spawning Power. Yeah, that's right. That guy in Yahtzee's video? That was Spawning Power.

MuC · Mar 08, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

1st: Expertise
2nd: Soul Reaping
3rd: Critical Strikes

Why do i think that expertise is 1st? Well my main in ranger. With 14 on expertise and playing R/D you can just spam all your attack skills which makes big domag. Soul Reaping is still very good but i think that Expertise is better.